Providing the tools for the next generation with John 00 Fleming

Photo: John 00 Fleming at Toika

Described by Pete Tong as 'a national treasure of trance music' and by The Daily Telegraph as 'one of the pioneers of electronic dance music', John 00 Fleming has enjoyed a stellar career within the underground that spans in excess of two decades.

Remaining grounded and unpretentious throughout, John has also become one of its most popular characters, with his free-wheeling approach to music, both as a DJ and an artist remaining a constant breath of fresh air.

Also notorious for his compilation work, John 00 Fleming's 30 plus mix releases have been responsible for converting a huge throng following of trance followers thanks his deep, textured and progressive sound promoting all the sophisticated goodness in underground trance.

In an industry that can at times be rife with egos, John's down to earth approach and overt dedication to his craft have maintained a palpable authenticity, one that his ever growing fan base can key into.

His desire to put something back into the industry has lead him to become a kind of spiritual guru for many up and coming producers, and through his journalism, blogs and fan interaction has helped many talented newcomers find their feet in an often perplexing industry.

Ahead of his return to the Brighton Music Conference in June (check out his guest mix from last year above), Mike Warburton spoke to John about the importance of giving the correct tools to the next generation, the pros and cons of the EDM explosion, and why he'll never stray from doing his own thing.

So we'll start off talking about your upcoming appearance at the Brighton Music Conference, can you tell us of what you've got planned for it?

Loads [Pause]

Ok cool, next question...

Haha! Yeah that's the answer, next question. That's it see you later, bye!

Haha!

The whole vision and concept came from me having a nutty idea one day and it kind of becoming a reality. I got known for writing blogs, tutorials, all sorts of things in magazines, giving how tos and help for the next generation...

You started off writing for M8 Magazine didn't you, back in the day?

Yeah I've done stuff for DJ Mag, my personal blog, and on my site just basically giving people advice and I kind of got known for it. But it got to the point where I was getting really frustrated out on the road - getting hounded on social media with people asking 'How do I do this? 'How do I do that'. It's not possible to personally teach everyone!

But that's what lead me to the conference. There's enough people out there in the music world and getting the answers is a pain for many. You can see it in forums, people in there are constantly lost and need help. So that's where the idea came from.

I thought 'OK, I can't just keep writing all these columns, let's get a bunch of all my mates in the industry together, let's put on a show for them where they can get hands on, and speak to a lot of the guys like me to give them real world experience, advice and help with how to make a go of it in the industry'.

So it's more of a practical, comprehensive approach to how the industry works?

It's full on, comprehensive, and from all angles - how to get gigs, how to get signed to a label, what's PRS, where do I find income from music... 

Imagine, we've got a load of the biggest companies in the music industry together, we've all put our heads together and put the ideas in one pot. And we've done the research too - going up and down the student unions and colleges to ask them what they would want from the BMC.

I went to a few as well, and it's quite frightening how you've got all these courses popping up all over the country, but at the end of it no one's got the tools to use the skills they've just learnt. They just don't know how to make a go of it in the industry.

We imagine there's a lot of talent then that's getting lost because of that?

I think the main thing that's missing, and I say this over and over again, but if we wind back over a decade, there used to be sales. This was before the days of torrent sites where people take music for nothing, and they don't realise the damage that they're doing.

When there was money and income in the industry we had staff for our record labels and an important, key member of the staff was the A&R guy. He'd sign an artist, then guide that artist through the process of his career.

But if you go to today's market, digital labels don't earn any money. There's usually only one person behind it, and they can't afford to get involved with that side of things. A lot of them aren't even A&R people, it's just a fashionable thing to start labels, so no one's getting that helping hand. They're kind of going in blind, throwing music out and hoping something will happen. 

They wait for that romantic story, like a Deadmau5 or a Skrillex. They think 'Wow he's just popped out, that's what's going to happen to me!' But that doesn't happen. It's just a one off, romantic story that happens every three or four years.

There are a lot of vital music conferences that take place around the world, but not really in this country. How important is it for Britain to get something like the BMC?

I think it's very important. There are other companies like LEAF which focus on the music industry - we do the professional side but the academy side, which is the passion for me, there isn't anything like that. It makes you realise that this is very important to the UK.

Even the councils and the government are seeing how important it is. They're listening to us and thinking 'Wow this is actually very serious'. There are so many clubs closing down or just struggling, and it's happening on a monthly basis.

But if we're giving the next generation the tools to make it in the business, that's going to see more custom go to these pubs and bars and clubs because they employ printing companies, marketing companies, you know...

The spin off from one club can then give business to the local area, which will bring in quite a lot of money. So they do see the importance of it, and of course if you're successful in the music industry the tax man is going to get his share as well. It benefits everyone.

Moving on slightly, we've got J00F Editions... is that pronounced Joof by the way? Or is it J, double O, F?

No Joof, that's the official way [laughs]. You're not the only one to hesitate, people say it and think, 'Oh, have I got that right, am I gonna get in trouble!?'

Haha!

Don't Google it! You get some scary things come up, it means something in Africa that we cant quite fathom out... [Laughs]

So you've got a few J00F Editions parties coming up soon, they've been really gathering momentum recently, where are you next taking it and how much do you enjoy this side of things?

Well this is the main side of me, you know, that is me. I just got frustrated watching the UK scene that I loved and knew in the heyday of the nineties and early 2000s disappear. You had weekly clubs in every town and city, and it was a thriving industry with DJs playing weekly and again that frustrates me - there are so many aspiring DJs out there that cant get gigs because there isn't a place for them to gig.

For me personally, as a DJ, my roots are in the underground. I love the underground scene but I was slowly watching it get overlooked and not given enough attention whilst this EDM storm, this big commercial storm took hold.

I don't want to play at clubs like that. I don't suit them, its a completely different clientèle. I love my country, and yes it's easy for me to go abroad and play all these wonderful gigs, but I just created something where I could play the music I wanted, and get guests in that I'm really into.

Do you think that some of that original spirit has been lost then?

Absolutely, you'll see the people who go, it's like a concert to them. They've got their phones out and they're just taking snaps of a celebrity up their playing all the big hits - it's the opposite of what I do.

For J00F Editions, we just have a dark room. The DJ booth is out the way somewhere, you can't see the DJ, and we've made it clear from the off - this is what it's about, it's for music lovers, you're not going to get any hits, there's no VIP room, no frills, it's just heads down in a dark room with a big sound system, and it's been a success. Everyone loves the ethos behind it.

You hear a lot of stories about big DJs being given specific styles to play, or customers being pissed off at the DJ that they've not played a tune they came to see.

I just think it's all part of the cycle in the music industry. People frown at EDM but it's part of the ecosystem - it's a gateway for new clubbers to get into electronic music. If we hadn't had EDM they might have gone down the indie and rock route and then we wouldn't have them at all.

So once they're inside they start maturing, and think, 'Hang on a minute, I'm getting a bit fed up with all this anthem bashing - I like the beat, but I don't like the cheesy bit, where can I get more that music where its just a beat?', then they might discover me from that.

That's what we're seeing, as they're maturing they're finding out what they're really into - it could be techno, or where I am, and I think that's why were seeing the underground build and build at the vast rate it is.

I've seen these cycles probably about three times in my career now, so that's why I'm confident that one, it is that cycle, and two that some good things are going to come off the back of the EDM explosion.

Just moving onto your Global trance Grooves Podcast, which, although it focuses on trance, unlike a lot of other DJs in the scene who have a niche within trance, yours seems to really take in the full range. Is this something you do in your DJ sets as well?

Yeah I always have done. The thing is, with the last decade and under the EDM business model people have to have a genre, they have to have a brand and a tag and that's just the heavy marketing from these celebrity pop DJs, so the next generation come into it saying 'Oh, I like trance but it has to be, Anjuna trance or it has to be Armada trance or it has this brand...', it becomes a sub genre of a genre and then that's it.

If you go back through all my mix compilations that I've done - I call myself a traditional DJ, as in John Digweed or Carl Cox, we don't really have any rules. If it's a good track we'll play it, regardless of where it came from.

I've kept that same ethos. A lot of the next generation that come into it are surprised that I play everything always have done, but they're only just discovering that from me.

Like we just did.

Haha yeah, it's a common thing, people thinking that DJs like this don't exist, that have a broad range and no rules.

The other weekend I was in Toronto for an open to close set. I played an eight hour set and got through a whole range of stuff in there. I did breaks, chillout, all sorts.

Are those kind of gigs a lot fun, where you get to explore a full range of records?

Oh I love it, because you're working as a DJ. It's very challenging to keep every single person in that room interested over eight hours. You think, eight hours is effectively a nine to five job, it's like going to work, so in all that time I've got to keep everyone interested in this story that I'm unfolding. It was a brilliant feeling when the lights came on and it was still packed! 

We've talked about your varied approach to DJing, but with your producing, you've been heavily involved in writing music for film. Do you have to go into a different mindset for that? How does the approach differ from your trance stuff?

Yeah you have to get into a different mindset. This is something I'm putting into the BMC as well, budding producers can ask what goes through my mind in different scenarios and how to make that connection with different mindsets.

But going back to the question, a dance track can be about eight minutes long, and you have to progress it so people keep their heads down dancing. But eight minutes doesn't work in film.

It'll surprise you, if you're watching a movie and there's a car chase, that car chase only lasts for about a minute, so you've got to condense twists and turns within a minute. It could be all high energy, and then the car crashes and someone's there dying so the music has to go to sad, but then we realise the guy didn't die so it has to go to happy. All those emotions have to go in a one minute segment, so it's very challenging.

Whatever you're presented with, you've then got to think visually 'OK, this is what I've got to do here', and the music makes a big difference. You've got to really get into the visual aspect of it, 'What message is the producer trying to get across?' Then you've got to bring that musically.

You've brought some of that filmic style into your productions of late too, your last album One.Hundred.Ten WKO in particular had tracks like  'Tears From Heaven' on it which sound very much like the score to a movie. How much crossover is there then in your trance and soundtrack work?

Trance is really emotional, and I think people have forgotten that about trance. If you go tot the English dictionary it tells you what trance means. And what it is today, again it's a big debate, but I don't think trance music is pop with songs, build ups, and all that kind of stuff.

Trance is those moments where you've got your head down and you kind of snap out of it and go 'Wow, three hours have gone by, what on earth happened there!?'. To me that's what trance is. If you listen to any orchestral stuff, its very trancey, emotion-wise with the rich strings and pads, you can really lost and engrossed in there.

Often you could use the same chord progression in a trance tune, take away the beat and be left with a rousing piece of orchestral music.

Yeah of course. That's literally what I did with those tracks. I stripped away the beat and I was then left with these ambient moments and I just thought 'They're too good to not put on an artists album', so I tried to break it up with the stuff people know me for and sprinkle of the stuff they don't really know.

I don't really shout a lot about the film scores, although it's coming out more. off the back of the album they're hearing bits and then word gets around with credits and the like. I thought I'd put it in there because at that point people were talking more and more about it and the people around we said 'John, stop being too humble and put some of that stuff on your album', so I did, and I think people are thankful for it.

Looking ahead now to the rest of the year, what have you got lined up? You've had quite a prolific few months recently.

Yeah I'm on a mission at the moment - I made a goa trance track that I posted on Facebook a while back, I haven't done anything like that for a long time!

All I was doing was having a mess around with some melodies, I thought ah, I haven't done a goa track in ages, so I just kind of messed around making this epic, euphoric, driving all in one goa melody, then before I knew it, the track was born. I've got a mix compilation coming out at the end of this month, and I'm going to have that as the supporting single, so I'm pretty excited about that.

I've got a load of other stuff too, I've been really busy in the studio [pauses] I feel like trance has got stuck. I could quite easily go to another genre and leave it behind but I feel that I've got to do something.

People are calling me a leader, and I hate that term, but the record label's doing exceptionally well, and I've been brave and just put out some brand new twist and turns on trance, like my last single 'Tik Tok' - nobody could quite describe what it was - well, it's a lot of elements together.

I've done that again and again throughout the rest of the year. I've thought 'Sod what's going on anywhere else, I'm just going to do my own thing, and if you like it, you like it'.

We like that approach.

I think often the first thing that people ask when they're making a track is 'Is this going to be a hit'?, Is Mr A list DJ going to play it? Is it going to get radio play? Is it going to get loads of clicks on YouTube?' If it ticks all those boxes, then they'll release it.

I don't even look at those, I don't care for them, the one big box to tick is 'Do I Like it?' Has it come from my heart, is it something I believe in?' I give it one big tick then it goes out. That's the way I work.

John 00 Fleming arrives at the Brighton Music Conference from Friday June 5th. Head here for your tickets, or see the ticket box below for Academy tickets. 

Tickets are no longer available for this event